Thank you for sharing the info about that gathering, Amy.

I will circulate this info on our child advocacy Facebook page. Please, send your neighbors and loved ones our condolences.
~Tonya Meadows
Children's Hope and Voice

What God's promises?

Just came back from my grandsons christmas celebration at cornerstone christian school. we said a prayer for what happened today. We kept it brief. Afterwards we all agreed we need to start locking up the crazys again. I know there were abuses in the past but some people are not trust worthy and will never be right. Unless of course they can prove them selves other wise. Too bad we have to revisit that again but we must defend ourselves from the people who have taken over the asylum.

Harry,

When you were a kid? How old where you in 1966 when Charles Whitman climbed a Tower on the University of Texas campus and killed 13 people while wounding 32 others. There have been acts of mass murder performed Romans, Phoenicians, Mayans, and ancient Egyptians. That should about cover anyone's childhood. It only seems extremely horrific because it happened yesterday. Have we already forgotten Columbine, Virginia Tech or 9-11? They are all acts of unexplained or unjustified horrific violence. I pray for the families affected by this tragedy.

To Cecil,
Horrific violations of trust have happened over history, but not at the frequency we are experiencing them, compared to the rest of the world, because of our outdated right to bear arms. What is the point of owning a gun, but to kill? Killing is a choice, made psychologically easier due to a cultural desensitization to violence. I get what Who Me? is saying. Violence has seeped into the mainstream due to media technology that has been developed since I was a child in the 1960s. We have gone from Wild Kingdom on Sunday nights to the glorification of evil in TV, movies and video games. Multiply that by a population explosion given access-- not to a colonial rifle, but to semi-automatic weapons used in the wars of the last decade. Let's not bury these children with the comforting lie that it has always been this way, and thus we are powerless to change it!

Like all of the other mass shooters this year, the guy was probably on a cocktail of serotonin reuptake inhibitors. Brought to you by Big Pharma.

Our schools already have restricted access - how more restrictive we can go? Jail restrictive? Do we add the same restrictive access to movie theaters, shopping malls, university campuses, etc? A little more and it would be more convenient (financially and logistically) to divide the country into 2 - one with guns and another one without. I already do not take my kids to malls, I took them only once to movie theater. I ask my husband if there are locks on doors at UMASS Lowell. And today I am curious why at our elementary school they always buzz me it without asking a single question. Also I am interested who should pay for all “upgrades” we do because of guns? Everyone or just gun owners?

Sean

The very reason that mass murderers go to these gun free zones is because they are full of victims who cannot defend themselves. They should be called "ambush zones" instead, or "risk-free criminal zones" instead.

Ask yourself - why don't these deranged individuals go to police stations to open fire? Because they know that they will last a very short time before dying due to return fire.

We should abolish gun-free zones - the only ones who follow these laws are the law-abiding, not the criminals. The criminals don't follow laws anyway, remember?

What we should do is allow concealed carry for teachers and administrators, along with sufficient training to bring their skills to a high level.

You yourself said that clearly teachers and police can't protect them. The teachers can't, because they are not allowed to be armed. The police can't, because they always arrive after the fact.

Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

"along with sufficient training"? Why current gun owners do not have this "sufficient training" that at least covers the gun ownership basics like locking the gun when you have unlicensed (and in addition to that sick) person in the house? On my opinion, you just asked about a part time teacher/ part time police officer in every school. Second, some of these guys are ready (really ready, with helmets and vests). Third: why not a single shooter has been stoped so far at no-gun-free zones (gun owners do not go Clakamas mall)? To kill a prepared shooter you need a very good training, a hands-on regular training. We do not need part-time volunteers with guns.

Howard, isn't it great that they keep legalizing marajuana? Have you hads enough yet? Now their killing our children.

Perhaps the gunman was just an evil person.

It's been reported that he was an honor student and had a decent upbringing but apparently had such little regard for his own mother that he shot her in the face.

We remember the past differently sir.

I don't recall a single home that had a gun...much less a sniper rifle.
So blaming it on "drugs" or our permissive society seems to be rather odd.

The man didn't use a joint to kill those people...those children...he used a GUN.

Howard, you are 100 percent right. We are well on our way to be no better than the countries that have suicide bombers blowing up innocent people..... what's so different?

Lisa - A deer rifle is a "sniper rifle" in the eyes of the media. This crime was done with guns whose design and function has been around for almost a hundred years.

Gun ownership is at an all time high. Crime, particularly violent crime is at an all time low. The murder rate in this country is the lowest its been since the early '60s. So why this deviation. Murders down. But splashy, flashy "hey look at me" mass murders are up. I can't help but wonder if the massive news coverage is driving it.

LMissy, lets start by locking up all the crazys.

In reply to Eric....you have to fund the place to lock them up, dear.

In reply to missy... well then lets just take them out and shoot them

In reply to Missy.. It is cheaper to lock them up than bury 20 children in my book.

Troll. Nuff said.

Who said he was commitable? People can mask these things well. But if you know a way Missy please enlist with law enforcement and by all means point them out. From what I have seen and I work in the field, this guy had no history of being hospitalized and gave no indication of dangerous behavior.

It does not matter if he was, or was not hospitalized. If he does not have a permit - he should not have toched a single gun in his life. He had access to the gun, and it looks like he had some training as well. Well, it all goes back to the original gun owner...

TK,
It appears his mother was a lawful gun owner. Legally he existed in a strange place. A 20, he could lawfully buy, posses and use guns.

However, he can't carry or own handguns until he's 21 and gets a pistol permit. Also because he is not a minor, he is not affected by the safe storage laws in CT.

Here is the problem. Most of these mass killers don't have criminal or mental health records. They can lawfully own guns. Short of prohibiting private ownership of all firearms and confiscating all in private ownership, there is nothing you can do to prevent a person like this from getting his hands on a firearm.

There are 2 problems with this. We have this little thing called the Second Amendment. Its application is settled law with respect to private ownership with the Heller and MacDonald decisions.

Then there is the fact that the presence of firearms probably does more harm than good. Depending on who you talk to, firearms are used roughly 100,000 times to 2 million times a year by Americans to defend themselves against attack.

Let's face it - lawfully obtained guns are used in our days to kill us (innocent bystanders, not enemies, tyrants, or criminals) on a regular mass scale and 2nd Amendment is still there. It’s not getting better, it’s getting worse. May be regular gun owners can protect themselves from the attack, but they are not ready to take down a prepared shooter. There 2 major ways sick people come up with multiple guns (1) they are able to purchase firearms themselves (2) they take firearms from their friend/family. We need to fine-tune the law, otherwise our holiday seasons will become bloody seasons. Most of the shooters are young, and may be adding GOOD phych evaluation (and national database) for people under 25 will help. But (2) can be tightened only by gun community, and our gun community (similar to unions) just letting this ship sink, than float. Stop asking for loose gun laws - it just adds more unprepared/sick people! Start adding mandatory regular education (why only teachers must get training? again: why our 6y olds get annual "shooter-in-the-school" training, and gun owners get none?)Start with free non-required classes lead by volunteers, then try to make it mandatory for some groups of people (with 20y old kids?). Right now the only stuff we hear from gun community it's law lessons and complains about how hard to get a gun in Mass. Non-gun community gets an impression that you neither control who you give guns to, nor willing to deal with it

TK - it is getting better. The murder rate in the US is at a 50 year low. Crime is going down.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/images/murderrate.png

Donald,
Crime is getting down? Good. Then it's only me who feel like recently my life is full of fear for my life and the life of my family members. May be on Monday I will go back to Burlington Mall and finish my holiday shopping and our superintendent can cancel Monday morning meeting with Westford principals. Can you please e-mail him your numbers? The type of crime changed... And now it keeps more people in fear. Everywhere. And it does not go away any more. It’s getting worse. I do not know what do you feel, but after my 6 y old described me how they hid in the bathroom during lock-down drill I felt ashamed. He is a citizen of a great country, there is no war (we pay a lot money for not having war on our land), and he should not be hiding! Or scared! Ever! WE ALL SHOULD BE ASHAMED that our future patriots/scientists/presidents/astronauts hide in bathrooms when there is no war around! Well, I must say we did pretty good job in turning this country around! Now kids let's get out of this bathroom and continue our lesson about constitution and about what our founding fathers had in mind about future of this great country!

God had nothing to do with it. he gave us free will and look at what some of us have done.

I would guess that the murder's "free will" was not exactly free, as by all accounts he was seriously deranged.

Never, God was standing outside Sandy Hook Elementary school crying. We have kicked him out of our schools, libraries, courts, public buildings and public land and then ask how He could let this happen? He stands ready to love and comfort all who will accept Him in their lives.
We do have free will and too many today have freely kicked Him out of our society. We have atheists that feign offense and we pull Him out of one more town.
I pray for the victims and their families. I invite God into my life and ask that he look after my children every day as they go off to school. I have a prayer coin on my keyboard at work and hold it multiple times a day. It is time we all invite God back into our communities.

So much for omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscient.

Why three guns? Very often, guns jam, so one should be ready for such eventuality.

Sudbury Resident

I grew up in a sleepy town in the USA. My father was a physician, and we had many guns throughout the house. We had rifles, shotguns, and pistols. We also had ammunition in the basement. My brother and I each received a .22 rifle when we turned 14.

All these guns were unlocked, and the ammunition was readily available in the basement. The .22's were in our bedroom closet.

Guess what. We never attacked anyone, shot anyone, or shot each other, or ourselves. We had a stable family, no drugs, and proper training for the guns. We were expected to clean them and safely handle them. If we wanted to go target shooting, our father took us.

This crime had nothing to do with the number of guns, or that they were locked or unlocked. It had to do with mental illness, and perhaps the medications this individual was taking.

There are 315,000,000 people in USA. There are 270,000,000 people are guns owners. Can you believe that ! Believe it or not,I found that out from the "Google" search. Did you know that Adam Lanza enjoyed video games.I wonder what kind of video games? Believe it or not, they show the pictures of the children from Newtown on the front page of the newpapers all over the world. I mean, all over the world. This was shown on "Inside Edition." Tell me something, did we even seen their children from other countries on the front page of the newpapers?

sudbury: the mother bought them legally and shared them with her trustworthy son. Want to prevent this from happening again? Ban automatic assault weapons with multiple clips. Keep a plain handgun in your house if you feel it is necessary
Make him kill the kids one at a time, not mow down the class and the teacher.

As opposed to people who insist that the deaths of children is a small price to pay for their right to carry. Those people are awesome.

They ban people under 21 from purchasing and drinking alcohol. How many teens die as a result of drinking and driving every year? These fire arms were legally registered but the owner was obviously careless with them. The same way parents are careless with leaving alcohol around for kids to get their hands on......drive drunk and run a school bus off the road killing kids. That doesn't get the national media attention like the word "gun" and "shooting". This guys has been labeled as having a personality disorder. Another mentally ill person who probably didn't get the help they needed and made a terrible decision.

People without guns want gun owners (1)to acknowledge the fact that there is a problem of legitimate guns ending up in possession of unlicensed individuals on a daily basis[not just occasionally] and (2) to come up with possible way(s) to dramatically lessen this problem while keeping 2nd Amendm [ Why my 6y old son gets “shooter-in-the-school” training every year, and gun owner gets none?]. Gun owners on the other hand (1) just see us (non-gun-owners) as 2nd Amend haters and (2) tell everyone to go and find solution ourselves.

TK- This guy got legal registered weapons from his mother. It would be interesting to know how or why? Did she just keep them under her matress or something? There is no reason for anyone who is not licensed and trained to ever put a fire arm into their hand. In this case, I guess the blame goes on the kids mother for all of this. She is responsible for the weapons that were used.

Diana, you are a jerk! No one "insists that the deaths of children is a small price to pay for their right to carry". Did it ever occur to you that is the Principal or janitor who confronted him were armed, the assault would have ended at the front door? Nah, that doesn't fit your rant!

Bob, have you been at elementary school recently? It's not a WestPoint! They hire quiet ladies to greet you at the front door! They are teachers, not trained gunmen. Most of them are women, not all of them are even physically fit. And the mere fact that we are discussing how we would train women/teachers to shoot in front of kids means that it went too far

TK, I have. The front office has protocols in letting ANYONE in the door. They buzz you in after ascertaining the purpose of your visit.
I know women who are better shots than most men. That is a strawman and sexist argument. Shooting in front of kids or shooters killing kids, which is better in your mind?

I'm sorry Who Me, but since 9/11, we haven't been able allowed to take so much as a pair of tweezers on a plane. Cockpit doors are now locked from the inside and pilots aren't supposed to open them during flight for any reason. Richard Reid failed at a shoe bombing, now we all take our shoes off at the airport. Someone somewhere got intelligence suggesting that there was a plot to hide bomb making materials in shampoo bottles. Now you can't take liquid on a plane in anything larger than three ounce bottles that fit into quart sized ziploc bags.

Are we safer? I don't know. But I do know that we responded. Efforts have been made. I think that we do the memories of the victims of all of these mass shootings a grave disservice by not responding.

It isn't just about gun control. It's about access to mental health services too.

I haven't heard anyone call for an outright ban on all guns. I have heard people call for waiting periods, a ban on assault rifles and large capacity clips, detailed background checks and so forth. Will that be perfect? No, but don't we have to start somewhere? Shouldn't we honor these poor children and educators, and their families by trying our very hardest to prevent this kind of thing from happening again? Does it really damage anyone's rights if our leaders at least have a civil discussion and try to come to some sort of compromise?

Don Hammond: the purpose of guns is to kill and maim, so don't equate it with auto accidents or accidents that are accidental . Not relevant. same as we do not allow car owners to drive 130 miles an hour, we shouldn't allow gun owners to have automatic assault weapons with 30 bullet clips like the shoot in Connecticutt had legally.

I absolutely ABHOR People who have to put things in "quotes" to try to start arguments on Patch....

No Quasi, the people pulling the trigger kill people. Time to start understanding that and blaming the right things.

Why not blame both? People with guns kill a LOT of people. You can't really kill a LOT of people without a gun, and I really can't understand why the average citizen needs the right to have a tool that allows them to kill a LOT of people.

That's a poor argument. I'd like to know if the people who were stabbed were treated right away or left to lay on the floor and bleed out.

Diana

The reason the Second Amendment exists is to allow citizens to protect themselves from government.

Not counting wars, in the 20th Century alone, governments have murdered 56 million people. (Including wars, the total is 170 million.) A list of only the major actions (e.g. Stalin's starvation of Ukrainian farmers, the Communist Chinese massacres and genocides) would be too large to include here. Governments have killed far more people than criminals ever have.

If you study the many genocides of the 20th Century, every one of them was preceded by gun registration and confiscation. (Visit www.jfpo.org for the full story on this.) This is why ordinary citizens need to have the right to defend themselves with the weapons that could defeat a government.

Diana, Timothy McVeigh didn't have a single gun!

William,
I know how soviet government starved to death thousands ukranian farmers, but let's agree, that we can not use one massacre to defend another one. It's time to reinvent gun laws in such way that before government starve us to death, we did not shot each other.

Bob: if there is no trigger to pull, then I guess nobody dies. Must have been the finger that killed the 20 elementary school kids . No wait it was propbabley the hand attached to the finger. Get real. Ban the automatic weapons and the finger can do what ever it wants.

John, just as a point of clarification ... I'm posting a link so that folks know the case you are referring to. And fortunately, in this case, the 22 victims were wounded but not killed, Praise God. http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html?hpt=hp_bn2

I support the right to bear arms, but don't understand why some people so vehemently support the right to own automatic assault weapons. Again, I'm not against gun ownership, but it seems that many lives could have potentially been saved in this and other instances if there wasn't public access to automatic assault weapons.

John, please abandon this ridiculous line of thinking. It's not helpful. Think for a minute: 22 kids wounded with a knife who will eventually recover is a vastly different situation than 27 people dead. And before you start twisting the Second Amendment in support of your baseless argument, please remember that the document was written in the days of muzzloading muskets and single-shot flintlock pistols -- not semi-auto AR-15s with 30-round magazines. It's possible to empty a magazine on a Glock 19 in the time it would take a competent muzzle loader to fire and reload once.

The "state-run media" comment is also nonsense; if you poke your head from your bunker you'll see that. The bit about the "Authoritarian left corrupt ruling class" was just plain laughable. You sound like you've spent the last 60 years hiding under the table at the McCarthy hearings.

...and I say this as a person who is a fan of shooting sports...

Mike

I think it is your argument that is baseless. The patriots of the American Revolution may have had muzzleloading muskets and single-shot flintlock pistols, but those were exactly equivalent to the weapons of the British Government.

The founding fathers meant for the ordinary citizen to have the same firepower that a soldier of the government might have. They knew that governments tend to become more and more tyrannical over time if the citizens don't have the ability to take down the government with deadly force if necessary.

Thomas Jefferson noted that the tree of Liberty must from time to time be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

The "Authoritarian Left Ruling Class" does sound outmoded for terminology. I prefer "Statists" - that does it for me. It is much simpler and clearly describes the Left's fundamental desire for a more and more empowered State (meaning government in the larger sense), that controls more and more of our lives and liberties.

Unfortunately, with the rise of the Police/Surveillance State that we are witnessing, regardless of who is President, every opportunity that presents itself is another opportunity for the government to grab greater and greater control of the citizenry.

I hope you enjoy the coming Surveillance State, with every one of your electronic messages over phone or computer being intercepted and stored.

Jim - there is no such thing as an automatic assault weapon. This is what is so frustrating. The manufacture and sale of automatic weapons for civilians has been banned since 1986.

The anti-gun media plays fast and loose with the facts. This murder was done with run of the mill handguns. Handguns that are used by normal citizens and the police to defend themselves every day.

As for SEMI-automatic rifles (1 shot for each squeeze of the trigger, they do no "spray") These rifles are used in less than 0.25% of all shootings. They are not a problem. They aren't used in crimes, and in fact, weren't used in the Newtown shooting.

Jim - I'm happy to debate the issue, but we need to be debating on a factual level.

William Dawes, your argument would absolute make sense if I, as an ordinary citizen, had an F-22 Raptor in the backyard parked next to my Stryker assault vehicle. The founders' desire to have an armed populace as a check on possible tyranny might have made sense in 1787, but technology has outstripped their vision.

Mike, you are so right: US government has weapons so advanced, that no civilian today will be able to fight against it. To William: I do not think that you can become a true patriot (and meaningfully sacrifice your life) before you actually learn how to spell “patriot” in the elementary school.

William Dawes: another paranoid dude. the "government" is coming to take me away. i need a bazooka for protection. how about we give you a battleship in case they come by sea? it's been 240 years ; nothing yet. paranoia strikes deep, into your mind it will creep.

Donald Mei: the shooter had a Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle with a 30 bullet magazine. all legal . how about we outlaw them for starters , and then we can discuss terminology. You seem more interested in terminology than 6 and 7 year old kids and female teachers in a classroom trying to protect them, getting mowed down without reloading.

Firearms aren't to blame for the behavior, but they're to blame for the result. Last I checked you can't angry 26 people to death. That guy didn't kill those kids with his issues, he did it with his guns.

Diana,
you are right guns are not the problem. Look at .the age bracket of the people who are doing this. Teens early twentys the kids that have been pampered and told how wonderfull they are even when they arn't. Not to mention a lot of them grew up drugged on prozak and the like. Now they can't handle the real world.
The same people who prescribed that poision for them now come foward and say we need more mental health treatment and we do but not more of that!

We need to go back to the basics. this stuff wasn't happening when I was a kid untill the liberals started screwing with our society. Their way doesn't work. Responsibility for what you do does. you do good work you get an A if not then you don't and you try harder the next time. No pat on the head for you. Good Job.
Someone else already said it the problem is DRUGS DRUGS and DRUGS. Focusing on legalizing marijuana and gay marriage is the last thing we should be paying attention too. I'm not against anyone but really where is our focus?

I hate to be the one who says this but if there were no guns. Do you realize how easy it is to build a bomb. Crazy people will ALWAYS find a way.

100% right...

Can we change age for legal possesion of firearms? Or just add strong phych evaluation for young people (under 25)? Lets do it at least temporary while we are taking care of drugs issue? I, personally, think that problem is way more complex - not only we increased drug prescription among young people, we also increased amount of chemical additives to all food sources - and all these additives add up at the end. We have a complete cycle: we feed young kids chemically saturated food -> their behaviour changes -> we give them prescription drugs (different chemicals).

You forgot video games and parents who let their 6 year olds play Call of Duty etc. and wonder why they become desensitized to killing and blood. Then you have shows on TV during "family hour" that would have been R rated moves 30 years ago. Yet no one looks at Hollywood. I wonder why....

The lust for and dependency on firearms should at the very least be considered as an indicator of a societal breakdown in your argument for it to be comprehensive and honest.

Thank you for saying it all out loud..as that is exactly the underlying reasons..I know of a family...mother director of a special ed system..years ago....they did everything for their son...financially, what was medically available..and what he would participate in as he was over 18. They had no denial of his mental state of mind, but the Mental Health field seemed to..These laws and programs need to change dramatically regarding mental health and asap...I know nobody is forgetting what happened at the High School to a young student either..

I left out what happened with to the parents of the severely mentally ill son, who was a danger to others and to them. They both barely survived an attack in their home by him, with a baseball bat. Another such person used fire to kill people. It's the state of mind and reality and rationale more than anything else..

B Springer

Actually, he could have killed that many people without guns.

Did you know that the Columbine killers had two propane bombs set up that luckily didn't go off? Would you ban all outdoor grills and propane tanks?

Crazy people do crazy things and evil people do evil things. It has been this way for all time.

The Second Amendment IS a God-given right - it is the right to self-defense. A way to give equal defense to all, whether young, old, male, female, weak, strong, sickly, or fit. A gun allows all to defend themselves. Ask a small, frail woman what she would prefer to use against a larger, young, fit male to defend herself.

The founders knew that individual liberties could only exist as long as the individual could protect themselves from the State, and from predators, especially of the human variety.

If you prefer not to have the right for yourself, that's fine. But if you prefer it for everyone, then please use your imagination to place yourself in Nazi Germany, or in the killing fields of Cambodia, or in Communist China during the Cultural Revolution.

Crazy people can be disallowed the right to own a gun in these united States. But, don't forget, Communist Russia would classify dissidents as "crazy" to deny them rights also....

kate f: nice trying to change the subject. It's the guns. Without the guns there are no killings. I'm not buying the mental illness aspect. Timothy McVey and his Navy accompless were sane as can be. take the guns away - then no problem. take the automatic weapons away , then less of a problem

Tim

Let's use the Swiss as an example.

Every Swiss man from 18 to 50 has a fully automatic "assault rifle" with 25-round mags, and ammo. His rifle is not stored at the army base - he gets to keep it at home! And this is a top-of-the-line SIG550. Yet, criminal use of these powerful weapons is almost unheard of. Also, the Swiss have no gun restrictions for sane non-felon adults. Buy what you want, and carry it where you want to.

This is because the Swiss government and the Swiss citizens trust each other, because they're the same people. In fact, the Swiss often carry their rifles with them to the polls on election day to remind politicians of their God-given right to be armed.

The problems in this country lie elsewhere besides with guns. Divorce, mental illness, psychotropic drugs, the breakdown of our society and culture - these are the issues.

I hope you reconsider your position, and I hope you remember your Oath to defend the Constitution of the United States, from all enemies, foreign and domestic. This oath has no expiration date, no matter whether you are active or inactive.

Raymond, some of us get inspiration from prayer with god. Then we get to work and try to solve the problems at hand. This is addressing the problem but you probably wouldn't like the answer.
Over time socially, morally we we slowly went off the rails. we let it happen because we are nice people. Well we were wrong to let things get this far away from the basics of life. Now without being mean to anyone we are going to start pushing back. The liberal way does not work. The big experiment has failed.
Look at the age bracket of the people who have done these things. Teens and early twentys. Products of a liberal upbringing.

It's unsurprising the people who believe in myths and magic also believe that we can solve our problems by magically going back to a mythical time.

John Q,

Shame on you! I was raised by liberals. I am a liberal. I've raised two teenagers who volunteer at soup kitchens and in kindergarten classes because they want to, not because they have been compelled to by a church or by their school. They love other people. They are kind, giving and loving. They would NEVER EVER contemplate for a second hurting anyone or anything.

You should be ashamed of yourself. It's that kind of comment that contributes to the divisive climate we live in now.

For the record, I have Conservative friends. We don't agree with each other about politics, but they would never suggest that my political views would result in my kids being mass murderers and I would never suggest that their political views would result in their kids being heartless.

In your comments there is no mention of those poor children murdered by some sick fruitcake. Figures!
You don't believe in God...... I feel bad for you!
You don't want others to own guns. Nobody cares what you think.
Suggestion! Mind your own business!

Ah Mark. "God, guns and shut up". There's a cogent argument.

This is a public website dear. If you simply can't bear to read differing opinions than Suggestion! Don't.

Matt, I'm no doomsday prepper but I do think there is the possibility of some natural disaster or financial or government colapse oneday leaving us without the police or the military to defend ourselves. I can see the desire to be able to own the means to protect your own household and family if any such thing occured. I don't like the idea that we are all expected to just be helpless little lambs waiting for a whacko like this to do what he wants. When I see stuff like this I can't help but wonder if those children could have been saved if the principle or the councilor was armed. Maybe not with a gun, maybe with a tazer or something. This whole incident does not leave me personally wishing for tighter gun control, it leaves me wanting to go get a gun so that if I ever find myself in this situation I can take my own action instead of cowering in corner defenseless as 6 year olders are killed one by one. One of the first people interviewed was that lady that was watching the 90 year old in the house accross the street. She said she ran to hide in the house. Ran to hide while 20 kindergarten children were slaughted. I would rather have the option to run and get my gun and see if I could possibly stop him.

Matt, I grew up in the late 60s high school in the 70s. It was not a perfect time at all. When the drugs arrived the difference in things was so obvious. Some of my class mates did not make it to graduation because they were dead, Over dosed.. I fought my way through high school and couldn't wait to get out.

I was not raised with predjiduce towards anyone and so had friends of all kinds. I still do. I do not recall mass killings in schools, theaters or any where else for that matter. that came later. People who do these things are screwed up by their enviorment and upbringing. A recent development due to their exposure to our messed up society.

You don't think liberals like money and power? Nancy Polisi, is very rich and she's a liberal so is Obama. There are a lot of them they are very well off. Thats fine.

As far as the God thing goes, You don't understand, god is not a super being if he was we wouldn't have to worry about anything he would handle everything for us and that would make God a super liberal !!!
He loves us more than that we don't have to belive in God and in fact we can completely ignore him if we want to and he won't come after us. Kind of like we have been doing and look at where we are now.

The only one's I see acting like super beings are currently in the white house.

Yes, "state militias"! Which means some type of organization with active participants, education, training. They get together, and at least ask each other "how is your kid doing? Is he on meds regularly?" Not a single mom with sick kid and 3 unlocked guns in the house.

Diana

Actually, John Merrett is not a fool. He is absolutely correct when he says that Obama is worse than Bush. When it comes to Civil Liberties, or the overseas use of force, or Executive Orders, or the use of drone strikes, or the power to kill Americans without Judicial review, he is backed up by many top Liberals, including Glenn Greenwald and Chris Hedges. You may want to google their names and read some of their writings.

Noam Chomsky himself said that Obama's first term was like Bush's third term. There is no difference in their foreign policy.

My question is - why is it OK when Obama engages in Unconstitutional warfare, and why are there no liberal protests against it? Why are drone strikes OK with the left; it is because the children killed are not "our" children? Why are Liberals not advocating for "drone-free" zones for other people's children?

If you want to see a fool, Diana, look in the mirror.

Obama has been

John, You may have an argument but you keep corroding it by throwing obtuse accusations ("you morons gave Obama a peace prize", "different pigment in his skin") on an internet thread to strangers (your fellow country men and women).

Actually, this gives me an idea. Anyone that attempts to purchase a gun and is denied should be photographed and put on a police watch list.

Maybe a law that prevents you from keeping a gun in a house where one of the residents has been denied one?

Diana that is a great idea.

Diana,Shawn,
how about this anyone who smokes dope or does drugs should be photographed and put on a police watch list. Probably anyone who was prescribed Prozack should be at the top of the list. Maybe just anyone under 30, they are all potential killers.

John, what does that have to do with anything? We're talking about someone who has gone out and tried to get a gun and was denied. They were denied because it was determined they should not have a gun. If they are looking for a gun when they shouldn't have one chances are there is a reason they want the gun. If they can't get it through legal channels they will go find another way to get one. If this is the case law enforcement and registered gun owners should be taking steps to make sure they have secured the firearms this individual might try to obtain. I do like your idea though, drug addicts and unstable people on mind altering substances should probably have someone keeping an eye on them. Especially when they are members of gun owning families. Clearly this woman's registered firearms were accessible to someone that should not have had access to them. Now twenty 6 year olds are dead. If she was still alive she should rot in prison for her negligence.

Who me: wait no more . A ban on assault weapons like we had under Clinton and not allowed to expire like under Bush would have prevented this mass killing in a short period of time without reloading. The best we can do is put as many restriction on as possible to lessen the impact. the 2nd amendment has been hijacked. it's intent was for a Militia ( read national guard) to have uninfringed weaponry, not Joe six pack and his senile cousin.

sean & dianne: another great idea is that if any one is convicted of negligent use or possession, or abetting others , directly or indirectly, that their property be confiscated , just like we do to drug dealers under federal law today.

1. Federal Back round checks that are the same state by state.
2. Every gun owner must have an annual test and check on their weapon.
3. Every gun owner must have firearm insurance.
a. higher rates for multiple guns
b. lower rates for everyone in the house hold being trained in safety.
c. lower rates for proper storage
d. lower rates for military and enforcement officials
4. Law enforcement has a compressive list of all gun owners in a town that get flagged with there is a mental health issue with someone in that house.
5. band on any gun that can load more than 10 bullets at a time.

Guns are American culture no doubt. But they are weapons of mass destruction. Their purpose is to kill. I'm full trained in self defense and the use of a weapon. I've had 4 run-ins with firearm in my life. Never would I have needed a gun those situations. I full understand most gun owners are extremely responsible with their weapons.

If you want more guns in schools and public places then you want even more government and who is going to pay for that? Gun owners?

Not punished, protected. Not guilty of anything. Not crazy at all. Most of these gun crimes are committed by people who have obtained the guns illegally. If someone is out looking for a gun and they can't get one through legal channels it just makes sense that they will try to get ahold of the ones in their home.

Sean

You are correct in one sense. "Most of these gun crimes are committed by people who have obtained the guns illegally." Criminals don't obey laws, and more laws won't deter them.

If he hadn't obtained the gun from his mother, he would have obtained it elsewhere by killing someone else. By your reasoning, then, all guns should be outlawed to keep them from deranged individuals.

No William, I believe in the 2nd amendment. I also believe in common sense. Guns are registered so we know where they are. Just like cars are registered. You are right, if he was motivated enough he may have been able to some guns somewhere else but his mom made it real easy for him. Why would anyone be opposed to the idea of taking precautions? Hey Mrs Lanza, your 20 year old deranged son just tried to buy a handgun. We are concerned that he may attempt to obtain one from your collection. We would like to secure your weapons and maybe suggest that you head out of town for a few days. Why is this such a bad idea? How would this have been a punishment to the now dead Mrs Lanza?

Sorry man, you can't make the innocent guilty by association......That's actually a scary thought that you would advocate such a thing.
The 20 year old was an Adult, responsible for his own actions.

Not listening. Nobody said anything about making anyone guilty. The suggestion was that if someone is looking for a gun and is denied we secure the registered guns that are within their reach. Nobody suggested pressing charges on other people. However, you can very much make the innocent guilty by association. If a registered gun owner through their negligence enables someone to get access to their guns then anything done with those guns is their responsibility.

We can leave guns in the house - we just give them opportunity to exchange guns to ones with biometric triggers... Only person with permit can fire it. We leave the right to have a firearm, but at the same time we limit who can use it.

Sean

Well done. You're the dream of the State. So, all a State needs to do is to deny someone a gun purchase, and all guns can be taken from law-abiding individuals?

You've just described the actions of Communist Russia, that would classify dissidents as "mentally defective" to effectively remove all their rights.

Congratulations, you've just detained Brandon Raub for questioning the government, using his First Amendment Rights.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/former-marine-detained-after-alleged-facebook-threats/

No William,

I sent a couple officers over to help a psycopath's mother secure her weapons because he's on his way over to kill her with them.

L I B E R A L S I am not sure who us is but I know who is wrong.

Same answer,

Iron Mike, I agree that it's wrong to blame guns for the violent intentions of an unhinged person. If someone wants to do bodily harm to other people, they'll do it with whatever is at hand: gun, knife, stick, rock.

The issue is that guns are the most effective means to their desired end. There's a fundamental difference in lethality between an AR-15 and a pointed stick-- or a knife. Nearly all the kids stabbed and slashed in China are expected to recover.

Iron Mike. I understand that you are upset but using the China incident is a complete false equivalency that only supports limiting gun ownership.

Wow dude, where did he get the gun he killed his mother with?

How was he able to unlock the safe? By magic? No, she probably just kept guns unlocked with trobled son in the house... We have problem with gun owners who can not take care of their guns! And kids! And we need responsible and experienced gun owners to step up and start educating other gun owners.

He may have tortured her first, none of us know, we weren't there. Maybe he simply asked to see them and she didn't think anything of it, he was always a quiet, smart kid. All of a sudden he turns it on her, and BAM. Spree begins.

John,
Liberals don't use wisdom they only do agenda and will do anything to get their agenda met. Distortion distraction falsehood what ever gets the job done for them. What ever it takes.Remember: Never let a crisis go to waste.

It wasn't a spelling correction, John. There is no reason, based on that post, to believe that you know what "eugenics" means, so I suggested you look it up. You also seem to believe that the American electorate assigns the Nobel Peace Prize. You are (hilariously) mistaken. As such, I DID address the charges that you made. They were crap.

Try looking up the difference between "knowledge" and "ignorance." That would be a better place to start. Unless of course, like so many of your brethren, you believe that wisdom comes from believing what you feel to be "truthy."

We are working on all these issues - we educate parents, lock our drawers, put lifeguard at every pool... We train kids not bring guns to school and we have drills. We try to be reasonable - we ungraded doors at schools, have CORI forms, have security check at the airports. Do you remember "pursuit of happiness" part? Well, 26 families just gave it up for 2nd Amendm. We are trying to find a balance with 2nd Amend. But when gunowners simply neglect to lock their own guns and only push for more simplified procedures we ask ourselves "do we really meet each other in the middle?"

I must have missed the part on the news where they reported that the mother failed to lock up her guns. Did you read that? If it isn't purely conjecture on your part, perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us with a link? Thanks.

This is an interesting post. First let me start by saying I'm not paranoid and neither were these 20 kindergarten kids when they went to school that day, nor were their parents, the teachers, or the school administrators. Let's address your suggestions. First step - turn off your TV and go for a walk: I would love to. Unfortunately liberals have spent the last 30 years freeing sex offenders, multiple offending drunk drivers, lunatics and other dangerous individuals from the institutions and facilities that we used to keep them in. They live in our neighborhoods where they are protected from harassment from us. Yes, protected FROM US. They did the crime, we do the rest of time. There are five multiple offending level 3 sex offenders living in my town free to go where and do what they please. I don't know who else is living amoung us or what they did but I know they are there. Second Step - turn off yoru TV and read a good book: this is always a good suggestion and I agree. I think I'll pick up a copy of Farenheit 451 or Brave New World and compare it to where we're heading. We're much closer to these becoming reality than we were when I first red them 20 years ago. Third Step - turn off your TV and play with your kids: This is actual good advice but I'm not sure how it educates the paranoid. Remember people, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you. Perhaps people should pay a little more attention.

Raymond...You ask "How do you educate the paranoid?" This video and experiment might be a good place to start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s&feature=player_embedded

Fourth step -- turn off your computer...and do the same.

So what?

I totally agree. This spare the rod and spoil the child don't work. The parents got to be aware of what their kids are doing. Children who have problems ARE being overmedicated. Plus toss in the Violent Video Games that make killing look easy and you have a bad cocktail of trouble.

Yet another reason the golden router in my house has a block on streaming video sites like YouTube. Kids can get on educational sites only. The younger kids are not allowed to play the older kids' video games or even be in the room with them when they are.

It's called Get Off Your Butt Parenting. More people need to let go of the Helicopter and try it.

quasimodo, I say thank you to you and the few others who are able and willing to find and present relevant facts.

As I mentioned above, in this attack that took place in a Hunan village in China, earlier this week, 22 children and one adult were stabbed, but only 2 seriously, all the others were wounded and are STILL alive. How many would have died, like in Connecticut, if the attacker had had guns?

Well, son, this is just anecdotal. I can also tell you that during the 42+ years I have lived in my neighborhood, no homicide has ever taken place either. However, a year ago or so, in another neighborhood, in a same town, a husband shot his wife, his two kids, and his mother in law!

The other "anecdote" is that in the USA, there are FIVE times as many homicides than in any other industrial developed country. And yet another "anecdote", per the Center for Disease Control, latest figures shows that more than 30,000 firearm deaths (all races, all ages, both sexes) in the United States took place. So, it must happen somewhere in the US, if not in your own neighborhood.

Finally, FYI, Epidemiology COVERS and studies social diseases, including homicides. If you don't think so, you should write to the reputable journal and tell them they made a mistake. ;~)) Like they say, don't bother me with facts, I have made up my mind.

So he wouldn't be the first one shot dead. He was going out on his terms. A real coward.

@ John did you ever watch Doomsday Preppers. All the nut jobs running around with their families Hunkering down waiting to be the first to blast someone.The mother had to be a nutjob as well.This is so sad what happened I can't bear to watch the news anymore. All I can do is pray for these families who is suffering from their loss.

What does a deranged person look like, John? If it was so easy to detect, psychiatrists would be out of business. I am certain that if I ever met you, I probably would also think you are deranged (according to my criteria).

Google HAARP and EMFs. Not so crazy at all, reputable journals have stated that the high focused EMFs DO disrupt brain chemistry and alter human behavior - otherwise our government wouldn't be studying it as a biowarfare option. No telling how it would "push" someone who was already wired differently than the rest of us - on the autism spectrum or chemically imbalanced.

So, now you are telling us that your god is angry because his children do not pray in school, so he/she is retaliating? WOW, I hope you don't own a gun...

KUDOs Geneva I agree. Bring all the good things back to the schools.

John Walsh

My argument that the basis for gun ownership is to protect citizens from government is not nonsense. Has the difference between government and citizen weaponry become extreme? Yes. But that has nothing to do with why the Second Amendment was placed second on the list of rights.

The government may have more guns, to the extent that a single individual could not revolt against the government, but I assure you that the only restraint from complete tyranny by our government is a NATION full of gun owners who might resist en masse.

I was the one saying that allowing, not making, teachers carry concealed weapons is an answer. Not THE answer.

What is certainly not THE answer is ceding more liberties to the government, in the pathetic hope that they will be the "be all" and "end all" to completely protect us against every evil that exists. Remember Benjamin Franklin's warning - "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." This still rings true. There never was, and will never be, complete safety, no matter how many liberties you give up.

No one can guarantee that a gun-carrying teacher or administrator won't one day be out of their mind. But I CAN guarantee that if a gun-carrying teacher was present, the students would have had a better chance of surviving. And I CAN guarantee that if these "victim-rich zones" continue, there will be more shootings, and more needless deaths.

William Dawes, the Second Amendment was placed where it was because of when it was written -- with the scars and struggles of the Revolution still fresh in the founders' minds. You greatly overreach by stating that the only restraint on tyranny is a nation full of gun owners; that comment implies that 200+ years of a well-established democracy mean less than an amply-armed nation.

Myjanda

You certainly like to use strong, provocative words to describe my position. If I am a gun "fanatic", then people who believe in the First Amendment are word "fanatics", and people who believe in the Fifth Amendment are due process "fanatics". People who dislike the President unilaterally waging war on foreign countries and peoples are nonaggression "fanatics".

I simply want the government to follow the Constitution. I believe it properly restrains the government and properly protects your liberties.

Regarding Switzerland, I never said the guns were lying around the house fully loaded (not "armed). I simply said, as you agree, that they have at home a fully automatic rifle.

Perhaps, if both countries like Switzerland, which provide citizens with rifles, and liberal countries, which have strict gun laws, have fewer incidences of gun violence, then these facts point to the idea that it is not the guns causing the violence, but something else.

You'll have to point to where I said that liberals were the cause of all evils. Actually, I have great respect for civil libertarians, and liberals like Glenn Greenwald and Chris Hedges. If you read their writings, you might see how we are entering a Police-Surveillance State with the federal government encroaching on all our civil liberties. Unfortunately, I think in the next few years you will see why we need protection from government overreach as the TSA expands out of airports.

Jon

I'm surprised you would characterize me as evil. I'm simply standing up for our rights as human beings as written in the Constitution.

I think you need to go back and read some history. You need to understand how for thousands of years, most individuals were peasants and serfs, and had no protection from powerful individuals and groups. They would be stolen from, and taxed by the "lords" that owned their lands. They had no legal protection. They had no rights to their own property. This was called Feudalism.

Then the Magna Carta came along, restraining the King. The Constitution furthered these protections by restraining government and protecting the Liberty of the individual to speak out, have judicial protections, arm themselves, and choose their religion, among other liberties.

If you choose not to exercise your rights, that's your decision. I'm sure the Corporations and Wall Street financial criminals will cheer you on so they can exert more and more control over your life, your finances, and our government.

Enjoy the period of Neo-Feudalism into which we are now entering. But I don't think your children will thank you when they realize what you willingly gave up.

Myjanda

If you like to have your Rights "fine-tuned", then we are entering into a period where you will absolutely love how the government is interpreting your rights.

You have the right to have all your electronic texts, emails and calls recorded and stored for future use against you. Google "William Binney".

You have the right to have your entire body and genitals groped when you travel by air. And soon the TSA will move outside of airports. That's called "fine-tuning" of the Fourth Amendment.

You will see active military soldiers performing civilian policing duties. That's called "fine-tuning" of the Posse Comitatus Act.

You will see Americans killed by drone strikes on orders of the President without judicial review. That's called "fine-tuning" of due process and the Fifth Amendment.

You will see more "free-speech zones" where protesters must stay within, and more "zones" where protesters cannot use their free speech. That's called "fine-tuning" of the First Amendment.

I agree with you. In addition to what you mentioned, there are those with an illness and those that find it difficult to reap the benefits of family guidance and spiritual teachings due to repeated negative societal impact. When kids spend much of their day with peers at school and after school activities parents have less time to offset information received throughout the day. Kids are on the Internet and iPods during school time., etc. The music and images are coming fast and furious. Parents and spiritual mentors have a fraction of the time to offset. I am not providing excuses, just a glimpse of the battle. For ME, spiritual guidance is the key and victory.

@ John ..Kids and adults are so now disconected. Like you say Virtual Freinds. I watched on of these video games and it discusts me to see how easy they make a child shoot a person beyond recognition.I myself think this is unhealthy for a child. Everyone's mind is different. To some children they are getting brainwashed on how easy it is to kill Virtually. Virtual freinds are the new babysitter and they are poisoning the kids minds.

Who, of course, the liberals protected him because he was "different" and in the interest of DIVERSITY he had protected status. in their world everyone is a victim and must be protected.

John,
You are right about technology it is a double edge sword. We are supposed to be responsible for what we create but someone can always highjack it and use it for god knows what. Now we have 3D porn, progres?.

By the way did you see the follow up on the homeless guy shoes story. Apparently he is on some sort of relief and wants to live on the street. The shoes that the nice policeman gave him, he sold them.

Yes, John Q Public, you're part of the crowd which wants to justify itself for not helping others in distress: it gives you a good conscience when you look in the other direction, away from poverty. Jeffrey Hillman, the homeless man, is apparently back in the streets, bare feet, he did not sell his boots, he hid them, for a good reason (but people like you do not want to know that kind of things either). Like he said, "those shoes are hidden,"..."they are worth a lot of money—I could lose my life."

Don Hammond, the Morgan Freeman story is a hoax.

As long as it's someone else and not you, right? Seriously, you want that kind of environment, move to North Korea or Iran. You are a sickening human being. Truly depraved.

Prison Planet? Alex Jones is a crazy conspiracy theorist who is NEVER right about his far fetched predictions. Loosen up your tin foil hat. It's cutting off blood flow to your brain.

I seriously can't believe the complete lack of decency on this page. No one should be engaged in arguments about wild, completely ridiculous conspiracy theories. Totally disrespectful to those who lost so much this past week. Shame on you.

DOOMSDAY PREPPERS a must see on cable. They get ready for the BIG Event and stockpile their weapons,Grenade Launches,50 cal Machine Guns and tons of food and generators. They practice firing these weapons teaching their children as well. Now they are READY. They are ready for the poor starving man to poke his head over the ridge looking for a can of beans and they hit him with a granade launcher.Wow What have WE become. The aunt was on the News in an Interview and this is what the MoM was a Prepper she stated. I think the whole Family was loose as a goose. Bunch of Nutso's Now the person or Gunstore that sold them the guns should be acountable as well. These children never even got to open there Chrismas Gifts.

To Sum it up They are all white coloor Bandito's,Scoundrells,Theives,Loan Sharks,Low Lives In Suits. No one is accountable. In another country they would be put to death for ruining other lives. This is what our youths in school watch everyday on the news. How easy it is to take and get away with it.

You're not mourning anything. You're using this tragedy to shove your weird conspiracy theories down our throats.

"Someone please explain how a woman, a mother and a teacher can obtain military issued weaponry. Let's start there."

OK...I'll bite. Let's start there.

She didn't have "military issued weaponry." She had a garden-variety semi-automatic carbine that's similar -- but not the same -- as a military M-16. Military weapons allow full auto fite, like a machine gun. Civilian ones don't.

Please stop posting until you're sure of what you're talking about

I don't, and have never taken Prozack (but don't worry, I don't even own a sling shot). If you did what you did as a biomed, I tip my hat to you[, because, based on reading your post about the street guy, I figured you were the type of guy who does not help other people, and find tons of justifications not to do so. I followed Jeffrey Hillman's saga very closely, and nowhere did I found he had sold his boots. Given my interest in this particular case, but maybe it escaped my attention, and I would welcome if you could point me in the right direction.

Quasi, trust me he sold his shoes and he wants to live on the streets just as he does because he can't handle normal life, I wish it weren't tru but there are many like him. you don't have to go to NYC to see this. It breaks my heart to see it anywhere but in the land of opportunity when someone refuses to grab the brass ring and rise themselves up what can you do?
I don't judge people but you only have so much energy and resources to help those who will help themselves. The time you spend trying to convince them may put in jeperody those who are already trying to surive and are about to go under.
I know you like to help but you can't save everyone. That being said you can also drown a man by refusing to throw him a line. However if he refuses to grab it you throw it to the next one who will. I am not a liberal i am a hard ass and I learned it the hard way.

@ John Q Public,Com'n John I know how agravating the Patch Blogs can be but plz we dont need the threats right now. You know as well as I many things can be easily said in text that would be not said in person. John just run with it,Have fun with it.I like saying things that piss people off. There isn't a soul on these blogs that anyone knows what to no because most are whinners. This is true in all sites Facebook Twitter all of them. On Paltalk Political Sites there is voice and cam and many here would not last 5 mins on that site. John lets just hope that nothing else happends to anymore and security is stepped up in the schools. Dont beat up fellow Americans..Beat up the polititions who want to be politicaly corect,who says you cannot display you Christmas scenes,or celebrate Easter or any relgious holidays. They are the ball less ones. Sometimes our Constitution can work against us thanx to our lawmakers who dictate what we should do and not do. Its all about these poor kids that were gunned down we cant let this happen any longer.

Yes David we did and I saw him wipe away the invisible tears. I am sure he could not wait to get to the part where he could let no crisis go to waste. trust me he won't waste any time using this tradgedy to ram his agenda down our throats.
Dishonesty of the worst kind over the bodies of dead children.

Sorry, was working during Obama speech, did not see him crying... But what about NRA represenative? Were his tears real or also invisible? Did they even talk about it? Ow, they must be very busy right now... Did not even have time to update their web-page - it looks like it belongs to a different country... Do they even know what happened? Do they care? Are they real? Do they have anything human they can show us? A tear?

Yes, and I am sure Quasimoto would like to punch the heck out of me as well at times. I can take it. Hey Irene did you take your Prozack today? you sound a bit edgy.

Come on lefties righties living together next thing it will be cats and dogs. What the heck happened to the world?
Why can't we just all get along?

Obama has met with the families of the fallen multiple times when the caskets have arrived at Dover. he has done so multiple times each year he has been in office, including the most controversial one in 2009. He greets the families in private ceremonies so that the funerals don't turn into a media circus.

You, sir, might not know much about a media circus, but your comments prove you're a top-rate clown.

He could spend all his waking hours going to funerals for soldiers killed in the stupid wars that W got us into.

Who said anything about belief or non-belief in god? Do you even read before you start typing in responses?

I was typing in response to this tripe: "We have taken any mention of God out of public life..."

Not really. It's more that you guys are so bad!

John, I agree. But on the other hand imagine the arrogance of thinking we can in any way whatsoever know or even comprehend who or whatever created all this? To believe that he dropped a carpenter here 2012 years ago to help us understand him and that we would be able to capture his requirements of us in a book written by barbarians over the course of hundreds of years is as ridiculous as thinking Earth is the center of the universe. I believe in a creator or the possibility of creators, I don't pretend to know anything at all about him or them. If it is God and he is as forgiving and loving as we paint him to be he (or she or they) will forgive me my ignorance if I should chance to meet him in the kingdom of heaven.

Thank you, Sean.

Sean, your response reeks of incitement and really takes aim at believers. Stating "he dropped a carpenter here", knowing full well that the he you refer to is He, God the Almighty and the carpenter you refer to is Jesus, God in the flesh. You refer to the inspired writers of God's Word as barbarians and further elaborate that you believe in a "creator, or creators, and if our God is loving , he or she will forgive you. Our God is a jealous God and He made it clear we were to have no other Gods (extra creators) before Him. Basically you will believe anything BUT what has been written. Sort of like Sean Wards' Religion.

Vineyard, your reaction to my response reeks of the intolerance of the Spanish Inquisition and Jihad. It reeks of religious intolerance and a tendency to become incited when someone's religion does not match yours or when someone says something that offends your beliefs. It is the arrogance that has pitted Muslims against Christians for 2000 years. The arrogance that has led to millions upon millions upon millions of deaths over the history of man in the name of one God or another. My religion does not have a name. My religion is that I don't know. My religion is that I am not going wage war on someone who thinks they know when I think they are wrong. My religion is about tolerance. My religion is about being kind to others because you should. My religion is about helping others because you should. You are an arrogant intolerant bigoted crusader. You may keep whatever beliefs you want because that is your right. A right that I served both as US Marine and afterwards as a member of the Air National Guard to protect. Enjoy the freedom to say what you want. Freedom is not free, but the United States Marines will continue to pay most of your share.

Yes, I can explain it. Because we also have the right to defend ourselves if we so choose. (Mind you I don't have and don't want an assault weapon). I can tell you straight up though if this guy showed up at my house I don't want to be a helpless victim until the cops show up 20 minutes later.

And you are to decide that for me......

You do realize that "assault" weapons DO NOT shoot hundreds of rounds in a matter of seconds..........

He used the hand guns to kill the children. What's the difference? He could have been using a bag full of one shot pocket guns, once he offed the teacher who was going to stop him?

Patty, this happens 50 times a DAY in this country. By the time the sun sets tomorrow 50 more will have died. It's actually been happening for years now, where have you been? All committed by street hardened criminals, drug addicts, mentally deranged law breakers that have no regard for human life.
If my Constitution secures my right to bear arms, and I break no laws while doing so, I refuse to accept that someone else can decide for me and my family how much of that right I should have.
Most have lengthy rap sheets, all have never feared being sent to prisons for mandatory sentences as our Politicians won't enforce the laws that we already have on the books.

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2012/12/dwayne_moore_found_guilty_mattapan_massacre

Self defense and the defense of ones family and loved ones in a world in which mostly only criminals are armed.

Since Cain and Abel: The CAUSE of death has has always been: The Moral Depravity of Mankind. Over the centuries, the Instruments of death have varied, but not the cause. Moral depravity is a condition of the Heart ie (mind,will and emotions) in which mankind rebels against God and His Laws. As a result,the Conscience is defiled.
Speaking of the Assault Rifle ban,some 2,200 gun laws are on the books,and violence continues. There is also a failure on the part of the Criminal Justice System, to enforce these laws.
In 5500 years of recorded History,mankind continues to destroy himself and his civilization,as a result of his dis-obedience.Ancient Rome is an excellent example of moral decline, as a result of it's Idolatry and moral decadence.

I agree with Dr. Paul here. Our Criminal Injustice system continues to defend the rights of repeat criminals while the innocent continue to pay the price. Our radios, TV shows, and internet promote and glorify depravity. We pay baseball players $260 million dollars but refuse to provide treatment to people with mental illness.

The man in China who stabbed 22 people only killed 2 - because he had NO GUN!

B Springer, and Timothy McVeigh killed 168 and he HAD NO GUN

Patty, 19 children under the age of 6 and 168 people in total were killed when Timothy McVeigh exploded a truck in front of the Alfred P Murrah building in Oklahoma City in 1995. He didn't have any guns. He had only items you and I could buy at Home Depot today.
If there is a will to kill, there is no way in a free society to stop it completely. The question we must ask ourselves is how much freedom is it worth giving up to be 2% safe? We have laws that are being ignored today. We have a judicial system that slaps offenders on the wrist and sends them back into society.
Ask any crazy person who has done this, including terrorists, and they will tell you it is a "soft" target with lots of victims they crave. If they know there is armed resistance, they are less likely to attack it.

Hitler was against his victims having guns.

There is more to: Social Progressive efforts (Inclusive of this Administration) , to ban these types of semi-automatic weapons, than John Q Public is aware of. The reasons given for banning such weapons, are meant to appeal to human reason. If John Q continues to rely on human reason, with a closed mind, this nation and it's citizens will find themselves in bondage to a Central World Government. The agenda this Administration follows,can be found within the documents of the United Nations. I know! The Progressive would tell you that this is a "conspiracy theory."
After years of reading transcripts from U.N.G-20 Summits, and re-searching U.N.documents, I can assure you,this is no conspiracy theory.
We are currently in debt to an International Monitary System, where billions of U.S.tax dollars are being re-distributed to the U.N. for their global projects.
In 2009 at the London U.N.G-20 Summit,this President pledged 65 billion dollars to the U.N.Millennium Development Goals,and that was only the beginning. Suggested Search: CRS United Nations Funding (look for the pdf file) Suggested reading: The Road to Serfdom

"During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED! "

That's patently ridiculous. It was never their intention to invade America. They knew they didn't have the resources to do so. Their attack on Pearl Harbor was solely intended to disable the American fleet so America could not effectively intercede in Japan's efforts to take control of Southern Asia's resources. The day after Pearl Harbor, having failed to sink the American carriers, they knew they had already lost. If you're going to cite history, at least get your facts straight.

Joe Veno, thanks for that post. I hope some of the pro gun control people around here will read it and connect the dots between gun control and tyrannical government.

The 2nd amendment had nothing to do with hunting. It guarantees the citizens the God given right (as opposed to government granted right that can be taken away) to self defense against a tyrannical government. When the government tells us what kind of guns, if any, we can own, then the government has its thumb on the scales of justice and freedom. Only a well armed society if free from tyranny. And, if you look at the statistics, well armed societies are also some of the most polite and peaceable societies. Unlike New York, Washington DC and Chicago to name a few. These places have the most restrictive gun laws in the country yet they have the highest per capita crime rates.

That is correct but the gun reloads automatically so the shooter just has to pulse his finger repeatedly to fire multiple rounds in seconds. That may make a difference in war - not much of a difference when your opponents are children.

Springer, A 45, 38 etc also reload automatically. You pull the trigger on a 38 revolver and the chamber rotates to the next bullet. The fact is automatic weapons were outlawed years ago and remain illegal. These weapons are semi-automatic.
A shotgun with buck shot would kill dozens in a single trigger pull if they were clustered.

I feel that if a person has not witnessed such a situation as you talk about and I have witnessed with parents of even young children on their way to danger to themselves and the rest of us, they can't 'get it', that they are out there and have been..and yes..it was the State Hospitals that contained..not that they were a help to many patients..but it kept the families safe as well as the person/patient. There is nowhere for a parent to go when it's extreme and finances are 'average' or limited. The siblings and parents live in one of those sick movies that perpetuate violence from deranged children...heartbreaking and living terror..Once they are over 18...they cannot legally do a thing..The combination of weapons, delusion and relating to the acts of violence they see in movies/television, books, well there you go..Turn a new page America..dump those movies, games of gore and weaponary.

I pay for my own "toys" so you don't pay one penny for any of em' I'm not responsible for what other people do in this world. I'm only responsible for my own actions.
You call that guy yet to get his insurance info?

All the dead by handguns are caused by trouble kids? You'd better wake up, John, and educate yourself. From 2001 to 2010, about 270,000 people were shot and killed in the U.S.. These figures include homicides, accidents and suicides.

No, now little kids need to fear an armed populace

John presumably thinks it's okay to kill children because some of them might grow up to be liberals.

My previous response to your comment was to debunk your simpleminded profiling of a mass murderer. Furthermore, since my stat of 270,000 shot and killed went obviously over your head, this number does include black-on-black, and any other possible color permutations you can think of.

PS. Could you please explain the difference between the libral left and the progressive left? This ought to be educational ;~))

One daily occurrence you forgot to mention. That being, when crimes are avoided because there was a gun in the right hands. But lets not let those numbers get in the way of your desire to disarm the public. If you don't like guns and know nothing about them, that's fine. Don't get one. But some of us know how to use them and do so often enough to be proficient with them. When the next subway shooter is riding in your car, you'll wish I or someone like me were on that car too. But, perhaps you would rather wait for the police to identify your body and notify your family. That's about all they're good for.

Maybe 1%er Moore should have said... "... had been a responsible gun owner,..."

Wow: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map

Excellent point John but one that supports better enforcement and less guns on the streets. Just because Chicago has tough gun laws doesn't mean they are being enforced or that they are the right ones.

Finally, here comes Hitler! John, did you ever hear about Godwin's Law in debates?

Sean, Fine with that. Every citizen gets training with an individually loadable six shot pistol, rifle or shotgun. Government program paid for by NRA. Clips, magazines and machine guns are needed for killing. Should only be for military and law.

I agree, we do need to write in some exceptions for private security though, but also need to require a much much higher level of training, certification, background and frequency of renewal for such. There are situations in which private citizens may find themselves defending against heavily armed criminals. For example armored truck drivers, or private ship security operating in areas prone to piracy.

Joseph is to William as William is to Joseph

Are we now discussing F-16? Did the guy in Newton have F-16?

Why? With all the absurd comments being added to a news story about a horrific tragedy, why not throw out the topic of crazy officials who get to carry concealed weapons? I'll be very clear, guns themselves don't kill people. Evil people who get their hands on a gun kill people. Same holds for drugs. We all know how the war on drugs is going - doesn't stop anyone from obtaining their fix. If you live in Charlestown, you know this to be fact. But that's for another article.

But before I get off point, how about the trained professional who just snaps. They are not only trained, they have access to more weaponry and firepower than all of us combined. Think about it. I mean, we are talking about mental wellness, are we not? Haven't we learned anything from this execution?

Thanks for playing. I guess AOL loves the traffic.

See Major Nidal Hassan and Fort Hood...

Speaking of Guns, my vintage 1930's Ithaca side by side just arrived home, after some minor repairs completed by an Ithaca Gun Smith, in N.Y.State.
Guns brings back some 57 years of wonderful memories with friends and families members, many of which have long since passed away.
Memories that these Gun hating Communists in Washington, will do their best to erase from the American Landscape,in an effort to eliminate the freedom we have so enjoyed. One individual in particular, refers to our Constitution as a "flawed document".
If we don't take back our Constitution,we will eventually loose all of the freedoms we hold deer. Don't kid yourself, these folks despise Capitalism and the prosperity it has brought to our nation.No other nation has been so blessed as the United States has.As a result,envy has driven them to insanity.
Suggested reading: The Road to Serfdom by F.A.Hayek. This book is available on Amazon. A Must Read